Thursday, December 24, 2009

How to Meet Atheist Men

Anonymous asked...

You gave advise to guys seeking atheist girls, how about advise for girls seeking atheist guys? You have a boyfriend, right? So you're a credible source of information.



Okay, okay, you know I'm joking. It's the first thing that popped into my head, but I think it does illustrate a misconception many (but not all) women have about relationships. A lot of us expect guys to make the first move. We may flirt back, but we're not going to do anything obvious like explicitly stating interest or - heaven forbid - asking the guy out on a date. They need to come to us and figure out vague hints to prove their worth, like some sort of sadistic test all women have agreed upon.

Ladies? Stop it.

I've had my fair share of relationships, from serious long term relationships to not so serious nookie. Out of ten guys, only one made the first move (my current boyfriend). Every other time I asked the guy out, went in for the kiss, etc. If I would have waited for a guy to make the first move, I could have had nothing until age 22. Or, more likely, I would have had a relationship earlier, but it would have been prefaced by months of bullshit and waffling.

I know being the aggressive one isn't for everyone. But I tend to be attracted to shy (or at least socially awkward) guys, so I figured out pretty quickly what I had to do. Are all men going to be happy with the woman being more aggressive? Probably not, but it's always worked for me. Are some men going to be elated to have women cut through the bullshit? Definitely.

This is more general advice that anything specifically for atheists. I'm not sure what more I can add to my previous post on men finding atheist women, since the same general tips apply. But I have found that in my atheist circles atheist men tend to be more intellectual/nerdy/introverted/socially awkward than guys and general. Obviously this is a generality that is not going to apply to all atheist men (maybe Purdue just fosters uber geeks) - but if that's the type of guy you go for, just make a move.

If you insist on being cryptic or fear rejection, I've found bitching about being single works. It's waves the giant "Hey fellas, I'm single and hate it, actually receptive to flirting right now!" flag. Some guys won't make a move if they're afraid you're not interested, or already have a boyfriend - so sometimes getting it out there helps. But don't constantly whine about it, or you'll start being annoying.

Guys, am I totally off base about this? Gals, am I the only women out here making all the moves?


  1. Well, I'm not a guy, but I figured I might as well share how I met mine. He's a recovering Catholic, now agnostic. We actually met at an anime convention in Dallas (which is funny since I'm from Denver and he's from Brighton [England]). Basically we just got to talking, and I made sure to get his e-mail address so that we could keep in touch - and then I e-mailed him. And e-mailed him again when he didn't respond the first time quick enough to suit me. XD

    Ladies, you have to be willing to take the initiative and do some pursuing if you've found one you like, rather than just sit and wait for a guy to fall in to your lap. Life ain't Disney.

  2. As a guy, a woman displaying that she's a free thinker/agnostic/atheist, etc is a large part. Showing interest is another. If there's any sort of attraction, it usually leads to communication. Being able to carry out a good discussion is all the better.

    But then again, I'm a fairly straight forward guy. I made the first moves with my girl friend. She's not necessarily agnostic/atheist, but she obviously doesn't care for the god of any religion =)

  3. Jen, you're not even slightly off the mark. Most sane guys like an assertive/aggressive woman, let alone a woman that has a brain. The two kind of go together, you know?

    The only note I would add, which isn't much of a comment, there is such a thing as a woman that is TOO is possible to turn off guys. But it is definitely given a lot more leeway than aggressive men get.

  4. I've met most of my exes by being proactive, but that was also in high school, when anyone not completely sequestered can get a date.

    Currently, I've not been too interested in going out with anyone, because my roommates are the best form of birth control on the planet, and introducing any woman to them probably counts as some kind of abuse.

    Not to mention that playing months worth of the BS game is quite possibly the most boring thing on the planet outside of high school. I can do without it, and I do just fine without playing it. Granted, this means I haven't had many dates in four years, but I've been fine.

    At this rate, though, I'll be 28 before I actually care about trying that method again.

  5. I wish more women were like you Jen, and would make the first move. It is tough always having to ask the girl(and get rejected :( )

  6. I don't think you're off-base at all, although that could simply be because I'm one of those cowardly guys who are incapable of actually making the first move.

    Especially after reading "Schrodinger's Rapist" a few times, I find it very difficult to approach people in that capacity (although I have no problem carrying on conversations with people, male or female, in a social context) and cannot bring myself to do so. I certainly would appreciate it if more women would do the approaching...

    Of course, my suspicion is that plenty of women already are approaching men. They just aren't approaching me, for which there could be plenty of good reasons and I won't presume to fault them for that.

  7. Male.
    The BS game sucks. Especially if someone seems upset with me but won't let me know why so I can repent.

  8. What mcbender said!

    I can talk to people in shops, ticket lines and all sorts of places, provided it's not an attempt at a sexual pick-up, which I can't do at all. (SR detectors may perceive such socialising as hitting, of course, which is another matter).

    I have withdrawn from the whole thing now, but I do wish there had been some Jen-like beings around in my youth!

    Re sadism: yes indeed, women do seem to model themselves on the court system in Kafka.

    Would people agree that nerd types are more sensitive to humiliation and rejection than, say, jocks? Minimaxing it, therefore, we prefer a certainty of not being mocked to a remote possibility of getting a date? I say mocked, because many women respond to an approach from anything inferior to Brad Pitt, not with a "No thank you" but with excoriation. The mechanism here is that the non-hunk is dissing them by thinking they are in his class, and this public degradation has to be avenged in blood. So, ladies who have decided to be aggressive ought to ask themselves whether they are prepared to take what they have been accustomed to handing out, as regards style of refusal. If they try it and get a "Not if you were the last woman on Earth", they may be nicer to the next guy.

    Finally: ixnay on the rewriting of the history. If a woman wants to be proud of having made the first move on a man, and to boast of having seduced him (brownie points), but the relationship later goes sour, she doesn't get to suddenly become The Seduced Woman. Suck it down, Marine.

  9. To provide some anecdotal evidence, confidence is one of the main things that attract me. Women, who know what they want and aren't afraid to act on it. Being honest and open doesn't hurt either.

    Also, on the hints part, I'll have to agree: we men do tend to need things spelled out for us with maybe an illustration or two on the side -- so try to carry a notebook and a pencil with you.